Lin Liu MW is the first female Chinese Master of Wine. She has lived in France since 2010 and began tasting Bordeaux En Primeur in 2013, beginning with the 2012 vintage. Liu has previously written for Bettane et Desseauve China, La Revue du vin de France China, Wine Magazine (China), Taste Spirit, Vinehoo and Conde Nast traveller. Liv-ex recently interviewed Liu to discuss her background, her thoughts on the Chinese wine market and the 2020 Bordeaux En Primeur.
Read in full, or jump straight to certain topics using the link below…
- Getting into the wine industry
- Becoming China’s first female Master of Wine
- The Chinese market and its influence on wine prices
- Wine production in China
- Successful brands in China
- Opportunities and challenges
- A view on Bordeaux 2020 vintage.
- Vintage comparison
- Other exciting regions
- Future plans
Can you tell us a bit about your background? How did you get into the wine industry?
I am originally from Hangzhou, China and lived there until I finished my degree in English Literature. I then worked in the Foreign Direct Investment segment (in Shanghai and Hong Kong) for about six years for many blue-chips companies. In 2005, I was looking for a change and got a full scholarship for an MBA course in Scotland and took the opportunity (partly because I had never been to Scotland!) After I earned my MBA degree, I worked for a Scotch whisky company for three years. I then moved to France and have been in the Cahors region since 2010.
The story of me falling into wine is not as romantic as it is for many passionate wine lovers. When I arrived in France, I barely spoke any French. I lived (and still do) in the countryside and knew almost nobody there. It could have been difficult to find work but my whisky clients in Taiwan and mainland China offered to buy wines from me. I knew nothing about what I was selling, so I started my WSET Level 3 course in 2011. I fell in love with wine while studying and have continued to study since then.
Congratulations on becoming China’s first female Master of Wine. What made you want to do this and how did you find the programme?
Because my French was so poor at the time, my best option to learn about wine was through the WSET. For a while, I thought the Master of Wine course was a master’s degree, then immediately realised my mistake when I started the Diploma course in Austria. When I was in Austria, I received immense help from my classmates, who made this experience extraordinary. Needless to say, I was the least knowledgeable student in the class, but my classmates helped me grasp the basic skills of blind tasting and many other things.
I look back on the MW programme itself with mixed feelings. It was so high pressured that everything else in life needed to be reprioritised, and this reprioritisation didn’t come naturally to me, but no regrets. It forced me to study subjects I would otherwise have chosen to ignore, which eventually gave me a more holistic view over many wine topics. Other than that, it is a somewhat self-revealing experience. Under pressure, I believe, that we manage to see our true self better. I also appreciate, wholeheartedly, the opportunity to meet many great people through the programme.
As our recent report highlighted, demand from China has influenced fine wine prices globally. How has the wine market in China changed over the years?
Until recently, China had shown a mixture of “importance” and “unimportance” as a wine market. With strong production, consumption and import figures, many people felt excited about the country’s potential. But if we read deeper, it is not difficult to see that China was irrelevant for most wines. The wine market in China was dominated by Chinese wines and lots of Bordeaux that cover the two extremes (the very expensive and the cheapest AOC Bordeaux).
This trend lasted for a very long time, until around 2012/2013, when there was the anti-corruption and anti-extravagance gifting movements from the Chinese government. As a result, many businesses, including wine companies, ended up with closure. The whole wine market then experienced a reshuffling, and wine businesses were forced to fight their way through, and they did so by embracing a more diversified portfolio.
This diversification created a solid basis for today’s market which has become increasingly diverse. It is also very important for long-term development of the wine market, and I anticipate that parts of China, such as Shanghai, will become mature markets soon. It does not take much imagination to see this trend expanding to other big cities as well. It is just a matter of time, and the Chinese market does evolve very fast.
The aforementioned Liv-ex report is available here.
Back in 2016, Liv-ex saw its first ever trade for a Chinese wine. How has China’s role as a wine-producing country changed over the years?
Chinese-produced wine has always occupied a significant position in China, regardless of volume or value, but segmentation and styles have gradually changed. Back in 2012, I recall asking my cousin, who co-owns a chain of popular restaurants in China, why he chose Chinese wine brands (Great Wall and the like) over some imported wines which would go better with his dishes and cost the same, if not less. His reply was that Chinese brands make his clients feel that they will not be ripped off.
To interpret his message: big Chinese brands are well established along when their pricing systems, which are solid and robust, and therefore represent better value for money. By contrast, an imported wine could sell for 1.5 to 10 times in China than it would in its country of origin, depending on the distribution channels.
What has changed in the past 10 years, however, is that luxury brands have invested heavily in China and helped shape its fine wine segment especially in wine-producing regions such as Ningxia and Yunnan (where Ao Yun is produced), which have recently emerged onto the international stage. There are also many Chinese-owned boutique wineries that have started to show their potential. A more diversified sector, including different pricing points, will develop further I believe.
Which wine brands do particularly well in China? Why do you think they are so successful?
It depends on the context, especially how we define “particularly well”. Let us look at brand awareness and distribution. Traditionally we have many Chinese wine brands, such as Changyu, Great Wall, Dynasty, Weilong etc., which were and still are very important in the market, even hit by imported wines in recent years. Then we also see international brands such as those from TWE’s portfolio and many top Bordeaux estates, which have done an amazing job in their branding. But they also had to make extensive effort with their distribution, which is not necessarily straightforward. Some Burgundy brands also work well in terms of their awareness among collectors, but the volume is usually quite limited and hardly scalable. If we make a generalised conclusion of their success, I think it comes down to creating demand in the market, whether this is due to scarcity or extraordinary quality, and meeting that demand by managing their pricing and distribution system effectively. The latter is more important by all means.
What do you think are the opportunities and challenges for China’s wine market going forward?
As mentioned earlier, the Chinese wine market is becoming more diverse. Existing figures are already remarkable, but China has yet to reach its full growth potential. Some international trends, such as natural wine, have certainly found their ground in a few metropolitan cities. At the same time, the majority of people still lack basic knowledge about wine, which is common for any new market. Sub-markets at different levels of development co-exist in parallel. Companies will therefore need to consider a high level of synergy between branding, marketing, distribution, and sales to reach their target markets.
One interesting new trend is food and wine pairing. With the launch of The Michelin Guide and Black Pearl Guide (the Chinese equivalent to The Michelin Guide) in China recently, many wines have been able to access a number of high-end Chinese restaurants, especially in the past 2 years. This is because one major criterion of being in these guides is for the restaurant to have a wine list. This isn’t to say that food and wine pairing will become “the” trend to watch, but it at least gives wine brands the opportunity to be listed and consumed in more high-end Chinese restaurants, where Chinese consumers go far more frequently than the Western ones.
To embrace these opportunities and market nuances, there are also some efforts to be made by the producers. Rather than just “educating” wine consumers, it is important that they learn and understanding the market particularities, as it helps wineries identify and communicate to the right type of clientele.
You recently published your report on the Bordeaux 2020 vintage. What are your overall thoughts on the vintage and did any producers or regions particularly stand out?
Some “grand” wines been produced, but it is not a great vintage for everybody. There are unfortunately ordinary wines, even from established names. On the Left Bank, we see the absence of homogeneity, making “generalising by sub-appellation” very difficult.
A few wines worth noting from the Left Bank (although not necessarily with the highest scores) are:Château Haut-Brion and Château La Mission Haut-Brion for both red and white, Château Latour, Château Haut-Bailly, Château Palmer, Château Montrose, Château Durfort-Vivens, Château Lynch-Bages, Château Pichon-Comtesse, Château Pichon Baron, Château Rauzan-Ségla, Cos d’Estounel, Château Clerc-Milon, and Domaine de Chevalier (both red and white),
On the Right Bank it is very satisfying overall. Pomerol and Saint-Émilion as appellations certainly stood out. It is exciting to taste many remarkable Right Bank wines from this vintage. My favourites include (although not necessarily with the highest scores):Château Lafleur, Château Pavie, Château Angélus, Château La Fleur-Pétrus, Vieux Château Certan, Tertre Roteboeuf, Pétrus, Château Nénin, Château Tour Saint-Christophe, Château La Conseillante, and Le Pin.
How does 2020 compare to other Bordeaux vintages?
To me, 2020 has its own characteristics due to the very particular weather conditions. The best wines can show perfect phenolic ripeness and incredible freshness at the same time, though poorly made ones could suffer from both over-ripe and unripe green characters. One interesting fact to note is that many of the better wines illustrate their long ageing potential, while showing great accessibility already at this young stage. It is quite rare.
What other regions are exciting you the most at the moment?
The list is long as I adore diversity. For work purposes, I would focus on those with higher relevance to the Chinese market. Aside from Bordeaux, therefore, the Rhône Valley and Burgundy would be on my “watch list” for the near future.
What are your plans for the future?
For the very short-term I will have my website (bi-lingual) up and running this summer. There will be branded wine tasting events to be organised accordingly (for 2022), partnering with some of the best professionals who are handling the local logistics. I will also be expanding my team.
Lin Liu MWs Bordeaux 2020 scores are now available to Liv-ex members on our website. For more information on membership, click here.
刘琳MW是第一位中国女葡萄酒大师。 自 2010 年起居于在法国，并于 2013 年开始品尝波尔多期酒 – 2012 年是她的首个年份。 刘琳曾为Bettane et Desseauve China、La Revue du vin de France China、Wine Magazine (China)、Taste Spirit、Vinehoo和Conde Nast traveller撰稿。 Liv-ex 最近采访了刘琳，讨论了她的背景、以及她对中国葡萄酒市场和 2020 年份波尔多期酒的看法。
您能自我介绍一下吗？您是如何进入葡萄酒行业？
我祖籍中国杭州，在那里出生、成长，生活到大学毕业取得英语语言文学学位。之后，我在外商直接投资咨询版块（上海和香港）工作了约六年，服务了许多蓝筹公司。 2005 年，在我希望换一种生活方式的时候，正好获得了一项来自苏格兰 的MBA 课程全奖。我毫不犹豫地去了，部分原因是因为我从来没去过苏格兰。取得学位后，我在一家苏格兰威士忌公司工作了三年。之后我搬到了法国，自 2010 年起一直住在卡奥尔地区（Cahors）。
我投身葡萄酒的故事并不如很多爱酒人士那么浪漫。当我刚来到法国时，我完全不会说法语。又住在乡下（现在也是），几乎没认识的人，这很难找到工作。我在台湾和中国大陆的威士忌客户提议，我可以帮他们采购葡萄酒，所以就这么开始了。当时我对自己销售的东西一无所知，所以 2011 年底我报名学习了 WSET 三级课程。在学习过程中我爱上了葡萄酒，然后就一发不可收拾。
恭喜您成为中国首位女葡萄酒大师。 是什么原因令您想成为葡萄酒大师？你觉得课程怎样？
因为当时我的法语很差，所以WSET成为了我学习葡萄酒的最佳途径。但三级学的是网上课程，所以我一直错误地以为葡萄酒大师课程是一个硕士学位（编者注：英文“硕士”和“大师”是同一个词），一直到后来在奥地利上四级时才明白。 在奥地利学习的经历非常令人难忘，我得到了很多同学们的无私帮助。当时我毫无疑问是班上最后进的学生。仰赖于我的同学们，帮助我掌握了盲品和许多其他基本知识。
回头来看葡萄酒大师课程，我感觉五味杂陈。当时学习压力很大，生活上的一切都需要重新排序。这并不容易，但我也从没有后悔这个决定。 课程本身也逼着我去接触一些不感兴趣的领域， 这种硬着头皮上的经历，最终帮助我对葡萄酒行业有了更全面完整的看法。 此外，这也是一段了解自己的心路历程。 我深信在压力之下，我们能更清楚看到真实的自己。 我也非常珍惜，通过MW课程让我结识到的许多非常优秀的朋友。
如我们在最近报告中指出，中国需求影响了全球的优质葡萄酒价格。 您认为近年中国葡萄酒市场发生了什么变化？
直至最近，中国的葡萄酒市场既“重要”，又“不重要”。一方面，由于庞大的生产、消费和进口基数，让许多人对中国市场前景感到兴奋。 另一方面，如果深研数字，不难发现中国市场与大多数葡萄酒没有交集 ；中国的葡萄酒市场由国产酒和两个极端的波尔多葡萄酒（最昂贵和最便宜的 AOC 波尔多）主导。这趋势持续了很长时间。
直至2012/2013 年，中国政府发起了反腐倡廉（包括严禁公款消费送礼）的一系列整改，让许多企业 – 包括葡萄酒公司 – 以关门大吉告终。 整个葡萄酒市场经历了重新洗牌，产品多元化成为渡过难关的重要举措。
这一多元化的过程，不但为当今日趋丰富的市场奠定了坚实基础；对葡萄酒市场的长远发展也意义重大。我预计中国部分省市，如上海，将很快升级成为成熟市场。不难想象，这势头也会很快扩展到其它大城市。这只是一个时间问题，而中国市场的发展是很迅速的。.
上述的 Liv-ex 报告可在此取得。
早于 2016 年，Liv-ex 出现了首宗中国葡萄酒交易。 多年来，您认为中国作为葡萄酒生产国的角色有何变化？
国产的葡萄酒无论从数量还是价值而言，一直在中国有举足轻重的地位。然而，在市场定位和葡萄酒风格上却在逐渐发生变化。 早在2012年，我和我的表哥聊过餐厅选酒的话题。他是一个大众餐饮连锁品牌的股东。我问他为何他选择中国葡萄酒品牌（如长城等）而不是那些更适合他餐厅菜色、成本不一定更高的进口葡萄酒？ 他的回答是，中国品牌不会让他的客户担心被斩。
他的回答可以这样解读：中国大品牌知名度高，而定价系统稳健，某种意义上来说“性价比”或者“消费心理安全系数”较高。相比之下，进口葡萄酒在中国的售价可能是原产国的 1.5 到 10 倍 ，这取决于葡萄酒的分销渠道。
然而，过去 10 年发生了不少变化。国际奢侈品牌在中国大举投资，也推动了国产精品葡萄酒进军市场的热潮；尤其是在宁夏和云南（即敖云的产地）等逐渐登上国际舞台的葡萄酒产区。此外，也有不少中资精品酒庄也开始展现品质潜力。 我相信，整个国产葡萄酒板块也会日趋多元化，包括不同价格定位这点。
哪些葡萄酒品牌在中国表现得特别好？你认为他们为何如此成功？
这取决于我们如何定义“特别好”。不如我们来看看品牌知名度和分销系统。传统来说，我们有很多国产葡萄酒品牌，如张裕、长城、王朝、威龙等，它们曾经在市场上有着举足轻重的份额，近年来虽然受到进口酒冲击较大，比重下跌，但仍然有着相当重要的位置。另外还有些国际品牌，如富邑集团TWE (Treasury Wine Estates) 旗下品牌和许多顶级波尔多庄园，它们在品牌推广方面都做得非常出色。但只有在分销方面也花大功夫的品牌，才有可能真正获得成功，这推行起来并不容易。一些勃艮第品牌在收藏家中的知名度也很高，但数量通常很有限，很难规模化。
如果我们笼统概括成功品牌的经验，无非是创造市场需求（不论是稀缺性也好，品质的卓越度也罢），以及通过清晰有效的定价和可靠并有执行力的分销系统来达到这种需求。而后者（定价和分销系统）更为重要。
您认为中国葡萄酒市场未来的机遇和挑战是什么？
如前所述，中国葡萄酒市场已越来越多元化。 虽然目前的数据看来，中国葡萄酒市场已举足轻重；但这只是序幕，市场潜力还远未到达顶峰。
我们也看到国外的一些流行趋势 ，如自然酒，在一些大都市已找到落脚点；但与此同时，像许多新兴市场一样，大多数消费者仍对葡萄酒缺乏基本了解 。许多平行市场同时存在。因此，葡萄酒公司在品牌运作、市场推广、分销各环节需要深思熟虑，寻找适合其目标市场的一揽子计划 。
另外，一个有趣的新趋势是餐酒搭配。 近年来随着《米其林指南》和《黑珍珠指南》（相当于中文版《米其林指南》）的推出，不少葡萄酒已成功进驻高端中餐厅，尤其是最近两年。 因为酒单是这些指南对餐厅的主要评选指标之一。这并不是说餐酒搭配将成为“重点”趋势，但至少能让葡萄酒品牌有机会进驻高端中餐厅，并让消费者享用。而中国人光顾精品中餐的概率，远远高于西餐。
葡萄酒生产者也需要做出努力，来拥抱这些契机和市场动向。 除了“教育”葡萄酒消费者， 作为生产者，也应当学习和理解所针对的市场特点，这最终将有助他们寻找对口的客户群体，并与之有进行有效沟通。
您最近发表了波尔多 2020 年份的报告。 您对这年份的总体看法如何？有哪些生产商或产区您认为表现特别突出？
2020年份虽然生产了一些“顶级”葡萄酒，但却不是放之四海而皆准的好年份。 遗憾的是，即使是一些知名酒庄，最终也只生产出流于平凡的酒。 在左岸，由于缺乏统一性，难以概括 “子酒区”的总体表现。 左岸的一些值得留意（不一定是得分最高）的葡萄酒是：
侯伯王Château Haut-Brion 和 美讯Château La Mission Haut-Brion （红和白），拉图Château Latour、高柏丽Château Haut-Bailly、宝马Château Palmer、玫瑰Chateau Montrose、Château 杜霍Durfort-Vivens、靓次伯Château Lynch-Bages、碧尚女爵Chateau Pichon-Comtesse、碧尚男爵Chateau Pichon Baron、 鲁臣世家Château Rauzan-Ségla、爱士图尔Cos d’Estounel、克拉米伦Château Clerc-Milon 和 骑士Domaine de Chevalier（红和白）。
右岸的总体表现令人非常满意，Pomerol 和 Saint-Émilion 产区尤其突出；这个年份可以品尝到这么多卓越非凡的右岸葡萄酒实在令人激动。 我最喜欢（不一定得分最高）的葡萄酒包括：
花堡Château Lafleur、帕菲Château Pavie、金钟Château Angélus、 帕图斯之花Château La Fleur-Pétrus、老色丹堡Vieux Château Certan、罗特波夫Tertre Roteboeuf、 柏图斯Pétrus、列兰Château Nénin、圣塔Château Tour Saint-Christophe、康赛扬Château La Conseillante、和 里鹏Le Pin.
2020 年与其它波尔多年份如何相比？
我认为2020 年份因其非常特殊的气侯条件而别具个性。 这个年份最上乘的酒款，同时具有完美的酚类成熟度和令人惊艳的新鲜度。但品质较差的葡萄酒，则有果实过熟和青涩共存的问题。还有一个有趣的现象是，许多上佳的葡萄酒不仅崭现出强劲的陈年潜力，同时也具备年轻时即饮的特质。这是非常少见的。
目前还有哪些酒区最令您兴奋？
我个人崇尚多样性，所以这个名单很长。 仅从工作角度看，我会重点关注那些与中国市场相关性较高的产区。 因此，除了波尔多，罗纳河谷和勃艮第也会是我的兴趣所在。
你对未来有何计划？
在短期内，我将在今年夏天启动我的网站（双语）；也打算明年回国开展一些葡萄酒品鉴活动，并将与国内最富有经验的团队进行合作。同时我也会陆续招兵买马，扩充队伍。
This interview was originally published on: https://www.liv-ex.com/2021/06/liv-ex-interview-lin-liu-mw/
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